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Maybe the Destroyer fix really is this easy.

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Reem Fairchild Minmatar Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.20 17:34:00 - [1] Originally by: Anubis Xian The primary complaint I hear about destroyers is that t2 frigs kill them relatively easy, they do decent damage, don't tank at all, and are too easy to hit by larger ships. They also have a 25% RoF penalty. What if that was removed? Destroyers would do a lot more damage, maybe even in some cases more DPS than cruisers. But is that a bad thing? I don't think it is. It would give them the kick they could use and wouldn't help their survivability...infact would reduce it (well not the Thrasher). It would make them able to handle t2 frigs, yet should still die easily to anyone that got tired of seeing them. The only tech 2 frigates that can kill a destroyer at all are the assault ships and then it's still not necessarily a given.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.20 17:50:00 - [2] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Reem Fairchild The only tech 2 frigates that can kill a destroyer at all are the assault ships and then it's still not necessarily a given. I've killed destroyer with my Crow... and I'd put money on the Sentinel taking out destroyers. -Liang Let me rephrase: The only tech 2 frigates that can kill a destroyer with a pilot who knows how to fit and use his ship, are the assault ships and then it's still not necessarily a given. My artillery Thrasher has no problem killing or forcing away even pimped out 10+ km/s interceptors. In the case of the assault ships it depends on if the destroyer is fit for that situation. For example, an autocannon Thrasher with a medium shield extender stands a good chance against a lot of assault ships.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.20 18:03:00 - [3] Originally by: Dheorl Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Reem Fairchild The only tech 2 frigates that can kill a destroyer at all are the assault ships and then it's still not necessarily a given. I've killed destroyer with my Crow... and I'd put money on the Sentinel taking out destroyers. -Liang Let me rephrase: The only tech 2 frigates that can kill a destroyer with a pilot who knows how to fit and use his ship, are the assault ships and then it's still not necessarily a given. My artillery Thrasher has no problem killing or forcing away even pimped out 10+ km/s interceptors. In the case of the assault ships it depends on if the destroyer is fit for that situation. For example, an autocannon Thrasher with a medium shield extender stands a good chance against a lot of assault ships. Lol, wanna give my sentinel a go sometime . Even heavily tracking disrupted an artillery thrasher will be able to kill the drones because they have to get into web range. And that's all your damage. It will be a draw. That is unless you can keep its cap so low that it can't even turn on a web. But between mwd, neutralizers, tracking disruptors, and a warp disruptor to keep the destroyer from simply warping away, well I just really don't think that's workable cap wise. At the very least one of those things has to go, and that means you can't kill it.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.20 19:08:00 - [4] Originally by: Sqalevon You do realise that a Sentinel gets a bonus to tracking disruptors? Yes. Do you realize that with destroyer 4 (my main has 5) a destroyer has 40% bonus to tracking? That's a defense against one, bonused, tracking disruptor built in. A second on top of that is not going to keep a destroyer from taking out webbed drones. Especially not if it has at least one tracking mod on it (which it should). A solo destroyer will not be able to take out a Sentinel flown well, but neither will the Sentinel be able to take out the destroyer.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.20 20:07:00 - [5] Originally by: Radcjk Oh look, another epeen fight. It's not. It's simple facts.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.20 20:29:00 - [6] Originally by: Radcjk Originally by: Reem Fairchild Originally by: Radcjk Oh look, another epeen fight. It's not. It's simple facts. Thats great...how about adding to the discussion instead of side tracking it with "I got you, you didnt get me !" disputes like two kids playing cowboys and indians ? In short, add to the thread with out derailing it. How is pointing out how and why destroyers are good ships "not adding to the discussion"? Do you fly destroyers?
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.20 21:53:00 - [7] Originally by: Dristra Epeen fight people, look, i suggested having more than a single destroyer, how is that idea? If they do different things and aren't just better at the same thing, then yes I'd agree. I don't think there is any pressing need for it, but it wouldn't hurt. But if you are going to have destroyers that are simply better than the current destroyers at what the current destroyers do (to justify the higher tier) you are going to have ships that are overpowered. Don't mess with something that allready works perfectly.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.21 00:51:00 - [8] Originally by: Xia Xiou Destroyers are extraordinarily useful ships. I use mine probably every day. My Catalyst has 3 cap relays in the lows, an AB and cap recharger in the mids, and 4 tractors and 4 salvagers in the highs. Nothing short of a battlecruiser could do its job nearly as well An Execuror does that job a hundred times better. (And you're not really being funny.)
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.21 01:47:00 - [9] Originally by: Radcjk Because 'What Ifs' and 'if I have these skills and you don't' scenarios usually snow ball into Special Olympics type debates. I apologize if you felt it was a direct attack on you. It was intended to just keep things on the fix it track. I worded it poorly. I did a longish reply, but the board ate it. Anyway, to put in very few words (cause I don't feel like rewriting): I don't see how I, or anyone else, was doing any of that, and I don't agree that the destroyer needs any fixing. So far, the only problem being pointed to in this thread is that "it is easily killed by tech 2 frigates" which is very obviously not true (unless killing ratting newbies in poorly fitted ships count for game balance issues) except for assault ships, and even then it is not always a sure thing.
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.21 11:47:00 - [10] Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 21/04/2008 11:50:19 Take away the rate of fire penalty and a blaster Catalyst will literally be able to have the dps of a Thorax. As it is, it is allready able to have a higher dps than many tech 1 cruisers and most assault ships. (granted it's a glass cannon, but still) Take away the rate of fire penalty while reducing the number of turrets and you are making the destroyers worse, not better, because you take away one of their big advantages, that is high alpha strike. This is especially true for the Thrasher, who's high alpha strike is pretty much the only real advantage it has over the other destroyers (the Cormorant has better range, the Catalyst has better dps, and the Coercer has better dps and tracking).
Reem Fairchild Minmatar Shadow Forces Inc.	Posted - 2008.04.21 14:20:00 - [11] Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 21/04/2008 14:23:13 Edited by: Reem Fairchild on 21/04/2008 14:21:02 Originally by: Anubis Xian Well this certainly garnered a lot more discussion than I anticipated. I don't think Destroyer DPS being potentially as high as a BC is such a bad thing tbh. They are still paper tanks. I think you're forgetting that we're talking about a class of tech 1 ships that cost less than one mil and allready have many useful abilities like long range and insanely fast tracking (faster tracking in all than any other ship class out there, tech 1 or tech 2, except for the interdictors who are on the same level). Seriously, are you being at all interested in game balance here, or do you just want a ship that you like to fly to be as uber as possible just because you fly it?

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